"Proclaim Peace" Season 2, Episode 9 // Bridging Faith and Family Conflicts Peacefully, With Réka Bordás
- 2 hours ago
- 27 min read
Listen on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, or watch on YouTube.
Jen is joined by guest co-host Maybree Spilsbury and guest Réka Bordás as we explore the biblical stories of Abraham, Lot, Sarah, and Hagar through the lens of peacemaking, sharing practical insights on conflict resolution, boundary setting, and maintaining relationships amidst differences. Our guests, experienced in conflict transformation and peacemaking, offer valuable advice on fostering connection and peace in family and faith conflicts.
Chapters
(02:26) Recognizing patterns in biblical conflicts and personal faith transitions
(05:27) Abraham’s story of migration and parallels to personal journeys
(10:09) Starting organizations to foster family reconciliation and peace
(12:18) Healthy separation and boundary setting in family conflicts
(15:29) Conflict styles: avoidance, competition, and collaboration
(20:17) The importance of maintaining relationships during faith transitions
(22:08) Healing grief and unspoken emotions at the root of conflict
(23:49) Differentiating peace from conditional agreement
(25:22) The role of self-awareness and community in conflict resolution
(27:12) Small steps like listening and vulnerability that promote trust
(28:45) Personal reflections on finding peace through connection
(33:50) Practical tips for loving family members with differing beliefs
(36:17) The transformative power of conflict as a path to deeper relationships
(37:10) Closing remarks and invitation to listen and learn more
Transcript
Jennifer Thomas (00:00)
Hi, I'm Jen Thomas and welcome to the "Proclaim Peace" podcast where we're reading the scriptures, particularly this season, the Old Testament through a lens of peacemaking. I am your co-host and our regular co-host, Patrick Mason, is journeying through Italy this week and so we are joined by an extra special guest star, Maybree Spillsbury. Maybree is the director of peacemaking at MWEG
And so she was a perfect guest to pinch hit for Patrick and to kind of share with you this particular episode. So we're excited to have with us. Welcome, Maybree.
Maybree Spilsbury (00:30)
Thank you, Jen. I don't know about a perfect person to be here instead of Patrick, but I'm happy to be here and excited for Patrick to be back for the next one.
Jennifer Thomas (00:38)
Well, Maybree has been an absolute delight to work with. She's been with MWEG since last September, and she's helping us develop a lot of interesting peacemaking courses and thoughtful content around ⁓ how we can be transformational actors in bringing peace to those around us. And I would love to have her start just really briefly by sharing with us a little bit about her experience and what led her to this field.
Maybree Spilsbury (01:02)
Yeah, so I got my bachelor's at Utah State University where I studied global communication and what was most interesting to me about this aspect of intercultural communication and connecting across divides was conflict. And so that led me to a master's degree at Eastern Mennonite University where I studied conflict transformation and really interested in the intersection of faith and conflict and peacemaking and how we go about that.
Jennifer Thomas (01:29)
So this is absolutely why Maybree was a great person to bring on for this particular podcast because we wanted to explore the story of some of the stories related to ⁓ Abraham and his brother Lot, Sarah and Hagar, and talk about some of the ways that ⁓ their relationship broke down or managed to survive in the context of the conflict that they were dealing with. Maybree, share with us a little bit about what you were thinking when you helped me design this episode.
Maybree Spilsbury (01:57)
Yeah, so there's a lot in this story of Abraham, right? There's a lot of different aspects we could cover, but we really noticed, especially with our guest, we talked about a few different ways that people responded to conflict, whether it was Abraham or Sarah, and we noticed that these are things that we do in our own conflicts, especially our own conflicts of faith transition. When we have family members leave or we ourselves are going through faith transitions, there's a lot of grief in that, and we saw in the stories of Abraham.
Jennifer Thomas (02:26)
So there are some real patterns here today that we hope you'll be able to learn from in this podcast. It's always a challenge when you find yourself in conflict with someone else, you have two choices. One choice, well I guess you have a couple of choices, but you can either walk away or you can lean into the relationship and try to make it better. And...
We are so interested in this, in the discussions that we're having here and helping all of us figure out how we can mimic the patterns that have been set out for us by Heavenly Father and by Christ that invite us to turn towards the people around us, lean into the relationships to help absorb pain when pain is there. And we think that these stories give us a really great example to figure out how exactly to do that and what happens when it goes wrong and how we can learn from that as well. So, Maybree, do want to introduce our guest?
Maybree Spilsbury (03:13)
Yes, ma'am. Yes, We are going to be speaking with Reka Bordas. She is originally from Hungary. She graduated with her bachelor's in psychology and peace building from BYU Hawaii and she has a master's degree in conflict transformation from Eastern Mennonite University, which is where I got to meet Reka. She is also wrapping up a graduate certificate there as of this week in restorative justice. She is also a teacher, mediator, facilitator, and a couple more fun facts about her. She's a self-defense instructor, a hypnobirth educator, and a doula. And her and her husband currently live in the DC area with their four kids.
Maybree Spilsbury (03:49)
All right, Réka, We're so happy to be talking with you today. So welcome. So the first question that gets asked to every guest on this on this podcast is how do you define peace?
Réka Bordás (03:53)
Thank you. Yeah, so everyone defines peace differently. I feel like based on just what they know and the life experiences they had and how they approach conflict. For me, peace is not about everything feeling easy or everyone agreeing or no conflict. For me, peace is more about staying connected, even when things are hard. so that to me is peace. It's not disconnection.
You're on your own now, it's choosing to care, remain responsible for one another, even across distance and difference. And I think we often confuse peace with like withdrawal. Like if we just create space, everything is fine. But I feel like real peace is deeper than that. Like we have to dig deeper and it allows space, but it also doesn't let go of love. It means that we keep caring for each other as children of God, as human beings, connected to each other. So to me, peace means that we may not walk the same path, but I'm still here for you when it matters. That's peace to me.
Jennifer Thomas (05:01)
I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. And I think it's actually a perfect way to launch into what we're going to talk about today. As you referenced, staying connected to one another. And we're going to talk a little bit about ⁓ some of the stories surrounding Abraham, who for many of us in world religions connects us all. And so I think it's a really great way to start talking about connection. We want to dive into that story and lean into the fact that Abraham at the very beginning of this story, God has commanded him to leave his place of origin, to leave everything that is familiar to him, to travel to an unknown country. And I think this is a great place to start with you because you have lived a life that sort of follows that pattern a little bit. You are originally from Hungary and I would love it if you'd start by telling us a little bit about what brought you to the United States and then more about how that then led to you being involved in peacemaking work.
Réka Bordás (05:56)
Sure, I would love to share that. So yeah, I've been actually thinking as preparing for this podcast about Abraham. And I think his story relates a lot ⁓ to my own life, because when I read that moment when he's told to leave everything familiar and go somewhere unknown, it doesn't feel like just a distant biblical story to me. It feels very human, and it also relates to my experience. So as you said, I did grow up in Hungary.
And I never thought that I would ever move to the US, let alone Hawaii, or end up studying peace building and working on this field. That wasn't really my plan. I wanted to do something else. I wanted to be an actress. But over time, like I just received lots of promptings from God and there was this quiet pull not loud, not dramatic. It was just a sense that there was something more.
I was being invited to and following that meant leaving behind my language, my culture, my identity in Hungary and Europe and everything that made me feel grounded. But I felt like it was kind of a divine intervention because I don't know how much story I can share, but how it happened, my husband and I were just newly married and we were in Hungary and trying to find like what's next? We were really young, both of us, and we both wanted to study, but we just couldn't decide what to do, where to go. And I remember it was New Year's Eve in 2013, and the day after celebrating New Year's Eve, we woke up kinda late. And we were like, should we go to church, or should we just skip it and go to my husband's grandma's house and have the wonderful Hungarian lunch?
And then I had a feeling that I know that we missed the first meeting, but even though like we should go to church. And we went to church and we lived in a town where the church is really small, just a very small branch, maybe like 20 people. And then on that day there were five extra people and they were tourists from Hawaii. And so not many people spoke English in the branch. So we translated for them and we became friends.
And then out of nowhere, dad said that like, what are you guys doing? What are you guys planning? And we were like, we're just trying to find our way. And he said, why not come to BYU Hawaii? And it was a really interesting moment. I still remember it because it sounded kind of crazy, like Hawaii? Like, where is that? In the middle of nowhere. Like, what is there? Is there a BYU there? Like, we heard about it, but we weren't sure.
Jennifer Thomas (08:18)
That is a little crazy.
Réka Bordás (08:27)
So even though it felt crazy, I looked at my husband and I was like, wow, I think it's kind of a revelation or a prompting. And that evening we started looking up what programs BYU Hawaii offers and ⁓ right away, intercultural studies with peace building caught my eye. And I felt like I am being invited to on this path. And I always had a desire while growing up to make the world a better place, whether that means globally ending wars or even just interpersonally. Or I witnessed a lot of family conflict in my childhood and I always had that sense that I want peace. Like, where can I find peace? How can I make peace? And then something shifted in me when I heard that. And that's what really brought me into peace building. And when we started school at BYU Hawaii a year later,
I just, everything felt like it's meant to be. I felt like my heavenly parents were guiding me there. yeah, it was one of the best times of my life studying peace building there. And of course it was a little bit of a challenge, just like for Abraham leaving my home and then being called to something I didn't know God had a plan for me, but it was all revealed later and ever since then I've been on this path of studying peace building. I'm just really passionate about this field. And so that's my story of being a stranger in a strange land, I guess.
Maybree Spilsbury (09:49)
Wow, yeah, and it's so cool how that like little kind of inkling to do something different led to all of this. So I know that you recently with a couple of other fellow peace builders from BYU Hawaii started an organization. I would love to dive more into it as we talk, but can you tell us a little bit about the organization and what you guys are doing?
Réka Bordás (10:09)
Yeah, so even as it is in the Bible and it is in Abraham's story and as we've witnessed it many times, there are a lot of ⁓ interpersonal conflicts and many times conflicts ⁓ happen between people who love each other and like whether that be parents and children, partners, close friends. because what we kept seeing again and again through our...just experiences is that the most painful conflicts are not between strangers, it's more painful when it's between people who love each other.
Yeah, both of my other colleagues who I'm starting this nonprofit with there also graduates from BYU Hawaii. We realized that especially around faith or identity changes, it can feel like the ground shifts underneath the relationship and then people don't know what to do with that. So that can be like, maybe a loved one leaves the faith. Many times we realize it's hard for people to know or the family or both of them to know how to deal with it. And then they either avoid it completely like, and then family members just become awkward. Like, let's just not talk about it. Or it becomes very emotional, reactive, even hurtful. And so our goal is we're trying to create something different. We're trying to create a space in our organization where people can actually stay in relationship without having to agree, where they can tell the truth but also stay connected. Because we believe that that's where transformation happens, not in winning, but in staying and staying connected to each other and learning how to bridge the differences, no matter what they are.
And because most people, like, they still love each other. It's not that they don't have love for each other. It's just they don't know how to deal with certain conflicts. And that's why we would love to help families in that. So that's our organization. It's called Reconcile.
Jennifer Thomas (11:59)
So I love this in the context of the Abraham story because when Abraham and Lot leave Egypt, they survive a famine and God leads them to a place where they can settle. But just like in all families, it isn't long before tension and conflict sort of emerge. And that conflict is over ⁓ resources, land, animals, food. ⁓ But that can happen in all families. It doesn't necessarily have to be about resources. Like you said, sometimes that can be about deeply emotional topics. And Abraham approaches this in a way that I think we're all inclined to sometimes do. He says, let there be no strife between us, and the way we're gonna solve that is we're just gonna completely disconnect from each other. The way we're gonna achieve peace is to disconnect. And I think we have a tendency to do that a lot in our society right now. It's often, I think, presented in the guise of boundaries. We're like, well, I don't like the strife that I'm feeling with the family member so I'm going to set up a boundary so that there won't be strife. But I would love to have you share with us a little bit about what you've learned in your work, particularly related to faith conflicts. Like how can we discern the difference between the only way to not have strife is to just have a really rigid boundary where we don't talk to each other, or is there a different way that we could go about resolving strife that still allows us as family members to stay in close relationship with one another.
Réka Bordás (13:21)
Yeah, just reflecting on Abraham and Lot's story, what's fascinating to me about this story is that the conflict doesn't come from something bad. They actually have – it comes from abundance. They have so many resources, animals, so much growth that the land literally cannot hold them together anymore. So it's so much abundance. And I think that's really important because we often assume that conflict means something went wrong. But sometimes conflict just means something has outgrown its current form. So as you mentioned, when
Abraham says that let there be no strife between us, and then he suggests separation. I think it's actually a very emotionally mature response, because he's not reacting, he's not escalating, he's not trying to control the situation. He's just recognizing reality, and he's choosing the relationship over being right. And I think that's the key, because healthy boundaries are not about distance. They're about intention. So even in real life,
The question many times is, what does this relationship need right now to survive? And sometimes, and having boundaries, I think it's a good thing. I am also an empowerment self-defense teacher, and I teach my students a lot about how to set boundaries. Because for many cultures, even for my own, it's a foreign concept, setting boundaries. But it's not a bad thing. But there is a difference between boundaries and walls.
Yes, Abraham decides to separate, but when Lot is in danger, he goes to help. And he says that, and that tells me something really important, that separation didn't mean disconnection. It didn't mean you choose your path so you're on your own now. There was still responsibility, there was still love, there was still care.
And I think that really it's a lot to family conflicts as well. That sometimes it's necessary to set a boundary. Sometimes it's like a harsher boundary, like let's just not talk to each other for a while. But what's important that we show each other in the meantime that we're still there for each other. And you know, sometimes we talk a lot about conflict styles in my field. And an avoidant conflict style, surprisingly, is very common, in many cultures, in many settings, like people just don't know how to deal with conflict. They have a fear of conflict. And then they decide to like, let's just not talk about it. Sometimes for a short time, that can be a good thing, especially when tensions are high. But at the end of the day, when the love remains, people will still turn to each other and they will work on how to solve their conflicts, ideally. And that's just something what on my field, conflict transformation, peace building, that's what we're trying to do, like help people not to have a fear of conflict and learn how to bridge their differences. And it's hard, it's hard, hard work. It's like the hardest, I feel like, but it's also the most important work,
Jennifer Thomas (16:13)
So one of my very favorites, grew up with Gordon Hinckley, President Hinckley and his wife in my ward. And one of the things that his wife Marjorie always said in reference to families was, above all else, preserve the relationship. And what she was talking about is that there was nothing more important when you were dealing with family members than preserving the relationship. And I really like the way you've situated this in the context of Abraham and Lot being able to separate, but obviously preserving relationship that then they could draw on in a moment of crisis.
Réka Bordás (16:45)
Yeah, and there are many cases when I have, even though I'm on this field, I have conflicts all the time. And I also have to re-evaluate sometimes like what's more important because I like being competitive as well, to be honest. And I'm like, what's more important, being right or preserving the relationship? And many times I pick the latter one like, preserving the relationship is more important than keep arguing and being right because at the end of the day that's what matters not whether I was right on this subject or not but whether I can ⁓ keep loving this person whether they keep loving me and we can preserve a good relationship.
Maybree Spilsbury (17:24)
So, Réka you mentioned that avoidance is a very common one and also combative. relate to that one or the two, right? We've developed these patterns to, I think, protect ourselves, right? We don't love experiencing conflict, so we avoid or fight and try to win in order to kind of distance or protect ourselves. And those patterns are very, very entrenched. So what practices or what things have either you done or that you've noticed that can help us to get out of that pattern? Like, what's kind of like your first step to stop avoiding.
Réka Bordás (17:55)
I’m not that big of an avoider. Sometimes I can be. But recently I realized that we have five main conflict styles. We talk about it in our field. One of them is competitive. And then there is avoidance. There is collaboration, which is problem solving. There is accommodating. And there is compromising.
And I recently realized I'm more of an accommodator. I am on this field because I don't, I love, I mean, it's hard, but I love talking about difficult subjects and difficult conversations because it reminds me of what Brene Brown said in her famous video and books and podcasts that vulnerability is what connects us to each other.
And I feel like you can literally feel, whether I work, whether I do mediation or facilitation, or whether I'm in an interpersonal conflict, when that wall of ⁓ separating us from each other falls. And there is that level of vulnerability, like both people are brave enough to step into it and they talk honestly. And then you see the other person's humanity in that. And to me, what's needed for that. as I'm saying, like, I don't have that much experience in the field as some others who've been on this field for like decades. But to me, a lot depends on communication and conversations, but also what's your way of being when you go into these conversations? What's your intention? It's very important. Like, are you going into this conversation because you're trying to prove yourself that you're right? Or are you going into it because you have a genuine desire that you want to understand the other person?
If you show vulnerability, on my experience, other people will show vulnerability to you as well. And I feel like that's one of the biggest challenges as a practitioner to help people let that wall fall down between when people connect, when their humanity connects, when they realize that they're both just human beings trying to get through this life, they both have dreams and fears and struggles and joys and that I feel like that's what connects us to each other and I feel like there's a deeper spiritual meaning behind that because I believe that we are all children of God. We are all children of God as humans and we want to be connected to each other. It's just sometimes we don't know how to do that.
Jennifer Thomas (20:18)
So I find this really intriguing in the context of the work that you do with families that are know, facing conflict around faith. Because I think that sometimes, at least the way I'm often seeing peacemaking talked about in the church, they're sort of emerging two strands. There are people who are like, well, peacemaking means that we need to accommodate and just make space for everyone's beliefs. And then we've got a group of people that are saying, no, peace is only present when absolute truth is present and when everybody is doing things the right way. And so, and those two, neither of those can be absolutely true, I think, right? I think they're both extremes. And I think sometimes that's how we approach faith conflict in our own families. We either just say, okay, well, I'm just gonna let go of everything that I've believed and just accommodate, accommodate, accommodate in order to retain a relationship with a family member who's left the church. Or sometimes people go extreme and say, I'm only gonna have a relationship with you to tell you how you should get on track and be better.
And so I'm super interested in hearing you tell us a little bit about how we can create peaceful and harmonious relationships that allow for people to have different beliefs, but nonetheless allow us to have personal integrity. So we're not, you know, folding on what we believe, but we are allowing space for other people to believe things that are different than we do and how that can be conducive of peace.
Réka Bordás (21:45)
I was thinking about the story of Hagar and Sariah I I feel like it's one of the most psychologically rich conflict stories in the Bible, because what we're seeing is not just a surface level disagreement. We're seeing their unprocessed grief turning into harm because Sariah is carrying years or decades of longing, disappointment, and maybe even shame around infertility. And instead of the grief being held or named, it gets acted out first through control, trying to fix the situation through Hagar, then through resentment, then through mistreatment. And in Hagar in turn reacts as well. there is in this conflict, there's a lot of tension, contempt and a shift in power dynamics. And suddenly they have a full relational breakdown. And I think that's so real, because most conflicts are not actually about what we say they're about.
They’re about what hasn't been healed underneath and then that relates to faith conflicts because in faith conflicts I feel like the grief is often invisible but it can be felt everywhere. It can be the grief of losing a shared worldview, a grief of no longer feeling spiritually aligned, the grief of thinking. We used to understand each other. What happened? What happened to you? What happened to me? And sometimes it's even deeper. Sometimes the grief feels like you've lost a of the person you love, like, I don't know you anymore. And when that grief is a name, it comes out sideways. It can be anger, can be control, or it can be just complete silence. But underneath, it's often just fear and sadness. And I think one of the most dangerous thing is when we confuse peace with agreement, because then peace becomes conditional. And then they'll say maybe like, I feel okay once you come back to my belief system. I feel at peace once you change.
But that's not actually peace, that's more like control, because real peace allows difference. It allows the other person to be fully themselves, even when the challenge is us. And I think that's real love.
Maybree Spilsbury (23:41)
Well, I was thinking about how you define peace at the beginning. You talked about how, like the first thing you said was everyone defines peace differently, right? We all feel peace differently. We experience it differently. And Jen, what you were saying about like this idea that like truth is peace, right? Like if we just have enough truth there, that's how peace will prevail. And I think that it's really...
confusing to us sometimes how these really beautiful truths that we've come to that have brought us a lot of peace, how do they not create peace for other people? I think that can be kind of something that we have to reckon with and kind of wrestle with, right? But thinking of He recently defined peacemaking in conference as alleviating suffering. And I think when that is at the forefront of how we're going about this, maybe certain truths that we find are really beautiful have been painful for other people and how can we first try to alleviate suffering and then let truth emerge from that? So I really love how you phrased when we talk about that type of healing, when you mentioned Sarah, she had this inner hurts that she then was like lashing out and it became about something else.
What do you recommend that we do to alleviate even the suffering in ourselves so that we can be more effective peacemakers?
Réka Bordás (24:55)
They say that a lot these days in therapy and all of that, that like we need to work on ourselves. And I think that's a very important part of it, like learning about our own triggers and traumas and what makes us angry or what makes us react, but also like what brings us peace. But it's very interesting because I just read from a psychologist that many times, like for example, when people are in a bad relationship and maybe that's talked about romantic relationships, but it can be family relationships as well. And we have like a bad experience and we're like, okay, I need to step back and take some time to heal, which is a good thing. But also we heal through each other.
And especially here at my university, at Eastern Mennonite University, we emphasize a lot ⁓ interdependence, like being independent and doing things on your own and learning how to deal with your conflicts and problems. That's good. But what would be better if we learn, like we live in communities, like we're human beings for each other for a reason. It's no wonder, like since the ancient times, humans tried in communities, not in isolation.
Like we really really need each other so for example if you have a bad relationship experience it's good to step back sometimes but also like bringing yourself back into the community with the hope that you will experience a relationship or friendship or connection, what will heal you, what will show you like this can be done in a healthy way. regarding to Hagar, Sariah story or family conflict or faith conflict, staying in relationship without collapsing into agreement or exploding into conflict is like a third way because it's the ability to hold two truths at the same time. It's I care about you deeply and I see things differently. And that requires a lot of emotional maturity. And it requires slowing down, listening, regulating yourself, being curious, being courageous, having dangerous love instead of reactive. So it's not easy, but it's the only way I've seen that actually leads to transformation instead of rupture of a relationship. Yeah, and that can get even more difficult if there are already a long history of heard like in Sariah's story. But it actually starts ⁓ much smaller than that. It starts with one moment where the pattern is interrupted, one moment where instead of reacting, we listen. Instead of defending, someone gets curious. And I feel like,
That's why we emphasize so much, for example, listening skills, like in the peace building field, because I noticed that on myself that I am a reactive person. And I don't know, I have a conversation with my husband or someone and I'm just like, reacting, reacting, reacting instead of like slow down, listen, like really learn deeply how to listen, hear the other person, like what's in their soul, what's in their mind, what's in their heart. Because I feel like trust is not revealed like through big gestures, but like that consistent, simple, small things like listening to each other, really, really paying attention and listening so the other person can experience safety through us because if people are listened to they experience safety and that can be a really good first step in like reconnecting with each other.
Jennifer Thomas (28:17)
So one of the things that's always been so intriguing to me as we've done this podcast is that every single one of our guests has, sometimes it overlaps a little bit, but has a very distinct version of what peace is, right? What it feels like for them, what it's gonna look like for them to be able to access it and experience it. And it feels to me that sometimes at the root in faith conflict, or conflict that's driven by tensions around our faith, we have found a way to peace that works for us and we want to sort of drive the people in our life toward it, right? We want them to find peace in the same way that we do. What are some suggestions that you could give to our listeners who are sincerely interested in bridging this gap with members of their families in terms of holding fast to what they know has brought them peace, but also avoiding imposing their version of peace on other people, right? What are some ways that they can maybe think differently or act differently to do that?
Réka Bordás (29:18)
Yeah, that's a good question. Sometimes in our organization, what we noticed is that divide, for example, children leave the faith and then parents stay and then that causes conflict.
Well, the first step, I think, is always just love. Like that's just so simple, but like loving that person, even if you have disagreements, reflecting, meditating, mindfulness, all of those things is, it's very interesting because it makes me remember, because I studied peace building at BYU Hawaii at a church university. So we discussed a lot the scriptures as well and what we can learn from them about peace building. And I remember
In the first days of classes, we talked about what is peace? And it turns out that when we talk about peace, or when we talk about peace in our church, and it probably has been mentioned before, a lot we talk about inner peace. Christ helps us to have inner peace, which is an important and good thing. But there's so many other areas of peace and peace building, of course, like interpersonal peace, and then it can go to family, community, bigger ones. And then at the end, we're talking about social justice, like whether letting some people be in poverty, is that peace? Or is there something more we can do?
It's very important to take care of ourselves, like self-care, learning ourselves, because I'm also a mom of four kids, so I know that I can't pour from an empty cup. Like, that's just a phrase probably gets said a lot, but I need to take care of myself before I can be fully present and attend to that other person. And sometimes, especially in my culture, like people undermine that a lot, but it's very important. And I think it's important to love ourselves because God loves us as well and love each other as well.
Maybree Spilsbury (31:13)
Yeah, with this piece, you've emphasized a lot the kind of the healing aspect of community, right of being in relationship. And I think something that I've just really felt through your comments this whole time is how much this work is really just staying open. And we're talking about where you get directly hurt by things people say, the relationships, loss of identity, there's a lot of grief involved with these faith transitions and the conflicts that emerge.
If I could just share something that I've been experiencing recently, my family has been kind of having a little bit of conflict along these same lines. And when I was talking to my dad about it, he mentioned how excited he was that we were just talking about it. Like he didn't mind that there was conflict and all of us were feeling really uncomfortable and tense about it. And he was saying like, no, this is great. You guys are talking about it. Like you're staying open and you're willing to keep showing up and keep being in relationship. Even when like there's a huge temptation to just shut off or to separate or to stop talking or just to deal with our hurt and our healing on our own. But it's been really emphasized to me of how essential that part of staying in relationship is to our healing process. And we're not going to find that peace if we're just separating from the people we love, even when those people are causing a lot of pain. Yeah, we're doing it to each other.
Réka Bordás (32:34)
Can I add something to that to answer Jen's question as well? So what is a first step I could recommend is get over the fear of conflict. Don't fear connecting with the other person even if it's awkward or weird, connect with that person. just read just a funny meme on social media the other day which said like, normalize telling your friends that you love them. Make it weird. Just say it because it feels good for them to hear, to let them know. And even if you're in a conflict with a person, like it's understandable that sometimes people want to avoid. But even then, like maybe just a short message like, still love you, I care about you, I just need to process this and I will get back to you. think especially for people who are more anxious that gives a sense of relief like okay still cares about me still loves me. It's kind of like in the Abraham story like he decided to separate from Lot but still was there for him when he needed him so that that the connection stays there. I think it's very, very important.
Jennifer Thomas (33:38)
So I'm of an age where I've seen this tension go both ways. Parents who have had children who've left the church and it's a struggle for them. And also sometimes children who've had parents who left the church and the children who want to stay and that's a struggle for them. And I think the families that I have seen weather this best and have kind of followed this pattern that you've just outlined, they have stayed connected. They have said, absolutely, we refuse to lose this relationship.
We are going to care for one another. We're going to learn from each other. And I think in some ways, often they have come out stronger on the other side because family members have really learned in the thick of it that they actually can trust each other, that their relationships were not conditional upon certain kinds of behavior or patterns, but that the family members kept reaching out to each other across divides. those are the families that I have admired most and who I think have, you know, kept these relationships open and strong and have been a place of great learning. So I think your advice is absolutely rock solid. So I'll second it. We are so grateful for you having taken the time to visit with us today. It was so wonderful to hear about your experience and how you arrived at Peace Building. I'm wondering if we could close out with one final question and just ask you to share with us where you find peace. Because sometimes that's a little bit different than how we define it, right? Where do you actually go to find it?
Réka Bordás (35:06)
Yeah, so I find peace in moments of real connection. That's when I find the most peace. Like I also find peace when I'm kind of on the border of being an introvert and an extrovert. So I also enjoy spending time on my own and I don't feel lonely, enjoying nature. I find so much peace in nature, having a calm moment, listening to music, being quiet, being present. I find peace there, but where I find even more peace in moments of real connection, when I connect with people. And I tend to approach everyone with that thought that they're a child of God and they deserve love. no matter what relationship we're in, I'm trying to approach you with love, even if as an Eastern European, I've just been told recently, sometimes I feel like standoffish or I don't know, it's just like, it's just my culture. Cause Hungarians are as well like that, that first day they're a little bit like varied of like strangers of who are you, but then they're like so loving, warm and hospitable. So like I find peace in moments of real connection, not perfect agreement, but those moments where someone feels seen, someone is vulnerable and the other person sees it and then they're vulnerable to each other even if they have difference. And I also find peace in the belief that conflict itself is not the end of the story. In fact, that can be a beautiful way of deepening the relationship. That even in the hardest relation of tensions, there is still the possibility for something deeper. So that's why I say like it's not just conflict resolution. It's a conflict transformation. It transforms your whole relationship, hopefully, to something deeper and better, where you can connect on a deeper level, on more loving level. So that's where I find peace.
Jennifer Thomas (36:57)
Thank you. I think that is probably, hopefully, the theme of this podcast, that conflict cannot, must not, and should not ever be the end. It is the beginning of the walk towards peace. So thank you so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure having you with us today.
Réka Bordás (37:10)
Thank you. Thank you.
Maybree Spilsbury (37:12)
Thank you, Réka.
Réka Bordás (37:14)
It's been an honor for me. Thank you.
Jennifer Thomas (37:15)
Thanks for listening to this episode of "Proclaim Peace." To hear more, you can subscribe on a podcast app of your choice or on YouTube. You can always find full show notes or transcriptions at proclaimpeace.org.
Patrick Mason (37:28)
"Proclaim Peace" is a partnership between MWEG and Waymakers. You can learn more about Waymakers at waymakers.us. Thanks again for listening and we’ll see you next time.
